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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyThu Jun 02, 2011 9:07 am

I had to pull my wife back to camp monday after she decided to give her brute force a drink of water in stinking creek,lol. I pulled her back in low and that's when I noticed a rattle at certain rpms coming from the back of the rzr. It seems to start around 3-4000 rpms and the tone changes as the rpms do, it goes away when back to an idle. It sounds like thin sheet metal vibrating really fast, like a loose heat shield. I checked the two on the exhaust and they seem tight.

I have been busy working on her kawi past couple nights, got it going last night so tonight I'm going to try to track down this rattle.

Has anyone had a similar issue? I'm just looking for some key points to look for tonight. Gonna have the wife run the throttle while i search for it.
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GunRunner
SSXSRider Member
GunRunner

Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 65
Location : North Georgia,

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyThu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 am

99% Its the heat shield between the bed and frame, take the bed off and use silicon to lay a bead on the frame where the shield sits then lay the shield back on and it will never rattle again.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyThu Jun 02, 2011 1:08 pm

Thanks gunrunner, I was looking in my service manual and had forgotten about that shield. Since I have the bed off I may make one a little larger to put in its place, I noticed The bed gets quite warm and melts the ice pretty quick in my cooler,lol. I've got a tube of black silicone at the house.

Guess this would be a good time for a good cleaning since the beds coming off!
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GunRunner
SSXSRider Member
GunRunner

Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 65
Location : North Georgia,

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyThu Jun 02, 2011 1:39 pm

Bigmike wrote:
Thanks gunrunner, I was looking in my service manual and had forgotten about that shield. Since I have the bed off I may make one a little larger to put in its place, I noticed The bed gets quite warm and melts the ice pretty quick in my cooler,lol. I've got a tube of black silicone at the house.

Guess this would be a good time for a good cleaning since the beds coming off!

utvcrap makes a larger heat shield but they want like 120.00 for it.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyThu Jun 02, 2011 4:33 pm

I think I can take care of it cheaper than that allright
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 7:44 am

Well, it wasn't the heat shield between the bed rails and frame, its the larger shield bolted to the exhaust. There's one bolt on the back side that you can't see unless the bed is off, its missing. I'll pick me up another bolt and add some loctite.


On another note, I just happened to check the rear yoke on the driveshaft and it had, what I would consider, a lot of play in it, front yoke is tight. I have greased it everytime before a ride. How much play do they normally have?
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Big-R
SSXSRider Staff
Big-R

Number of posts : 16074
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 46
Location : Louisville,Ky

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 8:26 am

Bigmike wrote:
Well, it wasn't the heat shield between the bed rails and frame, its the larger shield bolted to the exhaust. There's one bolt on the back side that you can't see unless the bed is off, its missing. I'll pick me up another bolt and add some loctite.


On another note, I just happened to check the rear yoke on the driveshaft and it had, what I would consider, a lot of play in it, front yoke is tight. I have greased it everytime before a ride. How much play do they normally have?

I have noticed that all the RZR have more play in the rear yoke. I mean all that I have checked. So I would say it is normal.

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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 9:12 am

Big-R wrote:
Bigmike wrote:
Well, it wasn't the heat shield between the bed rails and frame, its the larger shield bolted to the exhaust. There's one bolt on the back side that you can't see unless the bed is off, its missing. I'll pick me up another bolt and add some loctite.


On another note, I just happened to check the rear yoke on the driveshaft and it had, what I would consider, a lot of play in it, front yoke is tight. I have greased it everytime before a ride. How much play do they normally have?

I have noticed that all the RZR have more play in the rear yoke. I mean all that I have checked. So I would say it is normal.

Thanks big-r! I kinda figured that.
When I look at it from a designer/machinist point of view I believe this slop helps aid the front yoke wearing out. The rear need to have a tighter tolerance on the splines with a bolt or pin. The driveshaft is too long to only be supported at the ends, needs a carrier bearing somewhere.
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Big-R
SSXSRider Staff
Big-R

Number of posts : 16074
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 46
Location : Louisville,Ky

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 12:17 pm

Bigmike wrote:
The driveshaft is too long to only be supported at the ends, needs a carrier bearing somewhere.

That would be the best design but........ cost I guess.

_________________
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2012 Teryx 4
11 RZR XP 900 sold
08 RZR S 820 sold
08 Rhino 700EFI sold
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 12:52 pm

Big-R wrote:
Bigmike wrote:
The driveshaft is too long to only be supported at the ends, needs a carrier bearing somewhere.

That would be the best design but........ cost I guess.

I would think cost wouldn't be too big an issue. The crossmembers are already there to mount it to. IDK, i guess I'm way too picky at stuff, im used to very tight tolerances.

I may run buy the po po shop and take a look at a new rear yoke just to compare it. With only 900 miles on it and less than a year old I wouldn't think it would be worn out. I just don't want it to turn into something more expensive. I have been doing some searching on the net and haven't come across anyone having to replace the rear, always working on the front.
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nocerisdave
SSXSRider Member
nocerisdave

Number of posts : 5674
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 53
Location : Laceys Spring AL

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 2:06 pm

Bigmike wrote:
Big-R wrote:
Bigmike wrote:
The driveshaft is too long to only be supported at the ends, needs a carrier bearing somewhere.

That would be the best design but........ cost I guess.

I would think cost wouldn't be too big an issue. The crossmembers are already there to mount it to. IDK, i guess I'm way too picky at stuff, im used to very tight tolerances.

I may run buy the po po shop and take a look at a new rear yoke just to compare it. With only 900 miles on it and less than a year old I wouldn't think it would be worn out. I just don't want it to turn into something more expensive. I have been doing some searching on the net and haven't come across anyone having to replace the rear, always working on the front.

I have replaced both u joints. And Big R is right about the slack being more in the rear. However, I would say that worn u joints were the major contribution to my front diff failing. I would check to see where the slack is. If its minimal and in the splines clearence, IMO its OK. If you have any slack in the u joint I would replace them. $14.00 each is cheap compared to a diff coming apart. I had a metallic sound coming from the drive shaft area before the front diff came apart. I thought it was a shield because it was coming, or at least sounded like it was coming from the rear. Once I replaced the diff, the sound was still there. Replacing the u joints stopped it.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 3:14 pm

The play is in the splines, I'm pretty sure of it. I held on both side of the u joint and tell any play at all. It's loose on the output shaft of the transfer case.
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nocerisdave
SSXSRider Member
nocerisdave

Number of posts : 5674
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 53
Location : Laceys Spring AL

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyFri Jun 03, 2011 4:26 pm

Bigmike wrote:
The play is in the splines, I'm pretty sure of it. I held on both side of the u joint and tell any play at all. It's loose on the output shaft of the transfer case.

Should be OK then.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptySun Jun 05, 2011 8:43 pm

Ok, I got one more question. I have a couple of important rides in July and don't wanna be down for anything. Just to make sure what's going on at the rear yoke I wanna take the driveshaft out and inspect it. My service manual says drive the pin out of the front yoke slide the shaft back to drop off the front then toward the front to get off the rear splines. How hard is it to drive the pin out, do most of you all put a bolt in its place or put the pin back in, any tricks to it. Also once the driveshaft is off at both ends, how do you get it out of the rzr?

Thanks for all the help everyone!
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bush
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bush

Number of posts : 6055
Registration date : 2008-06-06
Age : 35
Location : Castlewood VA

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptySun Jun 05, 2011 10:12 pm

i used a punch to remove the pin and put the pin back in but i never took the shaft out.

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WV Hot Rod Rhino

WV Hot Rod Rhino

Number of posts : 150
Registration date : 2011-01-04
Age : 52
Location : Maple Fork Road, Mt. Hope WV

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PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptySun Jun 05, 2011 10:15 pm

the skid plate has to be off and it will come out the back
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nocerisdave
SSXSRider Member
nocerisdave

Number of posts : 5674
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 53
Location : Laceys Spring AL

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyMon Jun 06, 2011 12:23 am

Bigmike wrote:
Ok, I got one more question. I have a couple of important rides in July and don't wanna be down for anything. Just to make sure what's going on at the rear yoke I wanna take the driveshaft out and inspect it. My service manual says drive the pin out of the front yoke slide the shaft back to drop off the front then toward the front to get off the rear splines. How hard is it to drive the pin out, do most of you all put a bolt in its place or put the pin back in, any tricks to it. Also once the driveshaft is off at both ends, how do you get it out of the rzr?

Thanks for all the help everyone!

Like Bush said the roll pin comes out pretty easy. That should be your first step. I had to pull the front diff anyway, 4 bolts, breather tube and the one electrical clip. Hotrodrhinos suggestion sounds easier.

To pull the front diff you have to pull at least one of your CV's. Of course to do that you have to remove the hub and steering knuckle. Not a bad thing if you havent had them apart yet for inspection. Then you can then wiggle the drive shaft out the front. A couple of hints when you put it all back together. Putting the drive shaft back in. There is an o-ring on the out put shaft, on the rear diff. Pull it off and put it on the end of the shaft then put slide the drive shaft on. You will push the o-ring to the rear of the shaft where it wont stop water / trash from getting into the splines. Now with that said, I dont really know how much good it does, my was nasty and rusted. I have read where some put the tube gasket material inside to help with that. I didnt do it.....only because I read about it to late.

For the roll pin. I drilled a hole a little larger that the roll pin and about 3/4" deep, into a round piece of aluminum laying around. I put the roll in it as a holder of sorts, so I could drive the roll pin in. As for putting a bolt in place of the roll pin.....Roll pins are made of spring steel which provides a press fit, so there is no slack in the splines. In this case the bolt shoulder would need to be exactly the same diameter of the hole, guessing I would say its between 5/16 and 3/8. If you have failure at this point, break the bolt, nut backs off....I can imagine the drive shaft doing some major damage. I havent read of failure with a roll pin on a RZR.

Most important hint of all, have plenty of adult beverages available.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyMon Jun 06, 2011 8:29 pm

I got the heat shield fixed and in the process of cleaning everything up since its all apart, gonna change the oil and check the other fluids. I went around the lazy river at splash country too many times and burnt my belly yesterday so I called it a night,lol.

The driveshaft: first off I'm gonna make a special driver similar to the Polaris tool for the roll pin. I have a punch that's almost the same size and tried to move the pin but all I'm doing is flaring the end of the pin. I'll make the tool with a step in order to keep the driver on the pin while driving it out.

On to the "play" I was talking about. I took a real good look at it and I'm 99% sure its between the two splines. One giveaway is when the engine is running and rev it up the yoke " dances" around on the output shaft. The splines seem to engage good if u turn the shaft so my thought is keep greasing it and run it. I couldn't feel or see any play in the u joint. If I'm not mistaken the yoke is casted so its soft and has some wear to it because I can shift it up at the u joint about 1/8" or less but feels a lot less back where the yoke is on the output shaft.
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nocerisdave
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nocerisdave

Number of posts : 5674
Registration date : 2008-01-22
Age : 53
Location : Laceys Spring AL

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PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyMon Jun 06, 2011 10:15 pm

I just took a look at mine. Is your roll pin sticking out on either side? Mine doesnt.
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Bigmike

Bigmike

Number of posts : 134
Registration date : 2010-10-18
Location : East Knoxville,TN

Rattle? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rattle?   Rattle? EmptyMon Jun 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Yep, sticks out about 1/32" on both sides. Figure ill probably have to take my dremel tool and grind one side down even with the yoke to get it out. I couldn't get it to budge.

There's no noise and the front is tight so ill just keep a close eye on it for now.
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