Royal Blue Ride 11-01-13 & 11-02-13

We had great 2 days of riding with friends.  Thanks to Joe K for riding with us Friday, that he made me lead, and hope your eye surgery goes well.  Chad, Blue Knight, led us on Saturday to stay on tighter and better trails.  Thanks to oledragon, Joe, for fetching Pam the Hornets nest.  Still have not made all of the trails there.  We camped next to another XLR Thunderbolt with a great family.  Hope they will be joining the club or the site soon.

In some of the pics you will see, as Scott put it, Four Trail Cluckers (hens) in their natural habitat/of clucking. Also some pics show us rescuing a mud stuck Rhino. We also had to saw a large tree out of the main trail. 

GREAT PICS!!!!!!  

Nice pics. That is some deep mud at the playground that has the rhino stuck. Been there done that.

Les it was great riding with you all on Saturday. We had a great time and look forward to it again real soon.

Pam paying the toll keeper. It cost her a pistachio. 

Clearing the trail. SSXSR Logging.

ohsresq wrote:

Clearing the trail. SSXSR Logging.

After cutting through this tree in 2 locations it was still locked. Took 2 winches to pull it apart.

 

looked like a great ride. wish i could have made it. dang work

Had a great time ridding with you all Friday wish I could of made it Sat. Great pics

Awesome pics as usual Les!!! That was a stuck CHINO not a Rhino.....he was sunk!!!!

Nice pics Les! I wish I could have made it.

Great pics Les thanks

ridepate wrote:

Awesome pics as usual Les!!! That was a stuck CHINO not a Rhino.....he was sunk!!!!

I thought something wasn't quite right about it, looks like what Tractor Supply is selling. The poor guy wasn't very experienced, I don't think he had the front diff lock thing figured out. And if we hadn't come along it probably was going to be a loooooooong night for him.

Hey I did find the source of the burning electrical smell in my toyhauler tonight.  Wires coming from the generator transfer switch going to the breaker box are fried.






The inside of the cover was hot




Wires must have been made in China or Mexico!!  

Do you think it was the wires or the switch shorted out?

njcraddock wrote:

Do you think it was the wires or the switch shorted out?

Not sure. I think he switch shorted, but it still worked and would not trip the pole breakers or the breaker box breakers in the trailer. All of the screw down bolts are still tight, so it wasn't arcing.

Stranded wire????????????

I'm glad it didn't catch fire and cause any damage beyond that. But still very unusual.

MIKE_D wrote:

Stranded wire????????????

Yea, thought it should be solid myself. Stranded is what I found in Orange Crushes 1st haulers he had made. They cut some off some of the wires just to feed it into the breaker on his.

great pics  

It is either a loose connection on the contactor, the contact in the contactor was failing causing resitance or the neutral was overloaded. I see this everyday. We re-torque the lugs in our electrical cabinets as part of the yearly PM schedule. That is why there is a torque rating on your cover.
Use stranded wire- Stranded wire flexes better with out breaking. Electrons travel on the outside of the conductor. Stranded wire has more surface area versus solid giving it slight more amperage capacity.
The way that is wired, it would be very easy to over load your neutral. They downsized your neutral to 70% on the contactor, similar to what is sometimes done in residential wiring. It is sometimes allowed in residential because much of the load is going to be used as a 240 volt load on large appliances which does not use the neutral. But in a camper, that is a bad idea because most, if not all of your load is 120 volt. Example- If the main overload protection (breaker) on this circuit is 50 amps, x2 hots, then it is possible to induce 100 amps of current on that neutral or whatever total amperage rating on your 120 volt breakers are. Take total # of 120 volt breakers times their amperage rating and that gives you the potential load on that neutral circuit. Example- 5 total 20 amp 120 volt circuits 5x20=100 amps.
I cannot tell for sure from the pics what size those conductors are. Looks like a #8.
#8 THHN is rated for 55 amps
Use table 310-16 copper conductors.

There is nothing special about those contactors or "relays", they are standard industrial 3 phase contactors. No reason to go to a camping equipment supplier to get raped on the price for their replacements.

To prevent this from happening again:
Go to an Industrial Electrical Supply store like this one in your area. http://ehced.com/
Take these pics with you or the entire panel.
Ask for a set of "3 phase reversing contactors". From the pics, they will understand.
The reason you want a set of reversing contactors instead of just two contactors is that space block between the contactors is a mechanical interlock that physically prevents both contactors from being pulled in at the same time. Having both pull in at same time would cause a catastrophic short that would probably fry your generator.
They may just sell you two 3 phase contactors and a mechanical interlock that snaps in place which would work fine.
I would get one sized for about 60 - 75 amps no matter what size your conductors are. It should still physically fit inside your enclosure.
I cannot tell from the pics, but you will need to tell them what voltage you want the magnetic coils to be. I am going to guess 120 volts but being a camper it's possible they are low voltage. Follow those smaller conductors to where they attach at the top / back side of the contactor. There might be a label there or look on the side of the contactor body, the label there should say something about the coil voltage.

Now, protect the neutral conductor.
I would give that neutral it's own overload protection. Since you are going to have to cut back that wire on the load side anyways to repair, that would be a good place to add it.
Go directly below that panel and add some sort of (70 amp?) single breaker indoor enclosure and wire through it. Use a 50 amp single pole breaker (if wire is 8 gauge) and some split bolt connectors to attach the two hot conductors passing through. I think they make an insulated version of the split bolts now, ask the supply house about them. They cost a few more bucks but are much easier to work with.
Size the breaker according to the size of the conductor. Example - #8 wire, 50 amps.
That supply store should be able to sell you the wire you need by the foot to go from the single breaker enclosure to the contactor enclosure after you cut off the bad and attach the good to the breaker.

Example of single breaker enclosure:
http://www.amazon.com/Source-square-HOM24L70S-Indoor-Center/dp/B000H5WMSQ

Example of breaker to fit enclosure:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SQUARE-D-Circuit-Breaker-1D346

If you have enough room, get one of these and a couple of lock nuts to connect your enclosure and breaker box in the largest size your knock outs allow. Makes things easier. They will also sell them at the supply house.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/54061122?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=15557577904&006=15557577904&005=21882504424&004=4409695744&002=2167139&mkwid=sJXegN7a0|dc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=-99&025=c

Wow   I had no idea how expensive those reversing contactors were. Never had to buy them before with my own $. Just ordered what I needed and paid no attention to price.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/EATON-Contactor-6VMG7?Pid=search

I did some searching around, found some new old stock, this should do what you need. Even if the coils are the wrong voltage, they are easy to change out for the correct voltage, but I bet they are right.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi-Reversing-Contactor-S-2XK50ULAC100V-Size-2-3-Pole-120-VAC-Coil-/121205100201

The original sure is priced cheap. Makes me kind of suspicious of its quality. If you end up going with a different contactor be sure not to damage that circuit board. Will need to re-use it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROGRESSIVE-DYNAMICS-50-AMP-240-VAC-AUTOMATIC-TRANSFER-SWITCH-PD52-/151120176598?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item232f76e5d6

In the pic they are pulling the neutral for the coil from the neutral lug on the contactor; that means the coils are 120V.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110537A-English.pdf

Where was jhoncho when we needed him Friday night? That is some doggone good information.