Hatfield McCoy and a Rhino.... My thoughts

Well, I just got back from a two day ride on a 450 Rhino on the Indian Ridge Trail of the Hatfield McCoy trail system.
Had lots of fun. Saw a bear, dear, flocks of turkeys, ruffed grouse and some mud!

First, my thoughts of the Indian Ridge Trail:
The green trails I rode were very easy, and should pose no problem at all for inexperienced riders. Nothing fancy nor challenging about the green trails, but just some great riding for the family, with beautiful views and the ocassional wildlife.
The blue trails we rode, (Yep, you can now ride UTV's on most blue trails), were just as easy as the green trails with one exception............ mud! There's some dandy water/mud puddles on the blue trails! But my wife and I being alone, and not having someone else with us we chose to try our best to avoid the puddles, especially after our incident with the first puddle we attempted, which I'll explain later. Some of the detours around the puddles were a little tite, and the roll cage would rub on side-sloped humps with a tree on each side, or maybe a fender. But if we'd had a friend riding with us on another machine, we woulda just went through the puddles.

Overall, the Hatfield McCoy Indian Ridge Trails were a great ride for us. It didn't contain any "Play Areas", such as run-arounds, or hill climbs, etc., like we have here at home. But there's anough riding to completely exhaust two broken down people with bad backs!
The Ashland KOA was also a great place to stay, and the facilities were great, the people were great, just a great stay overall!

Now, for my thoughts about the Rhino:
As some here know, I'm wanting to buy a UTV in the future. So when my friend offered to let me borrow his 450 Rhino for a few days, I jumped at the oportunity!

Well, the first thing that happened, was a blue trail mudhole! I just had to try it. I eased into the hole and the water only came up to the hubs at first, then as I noticed the water getting deeper I floored the Rhino, and we went another 5 feet, (about the time we got to the halfway point), and the Rhino bucked, coughed, and quit, smack-dab in the middle of the hole!
The water was up to the door handles, and I jumped out, hooked up the winch in record time, and winched us out! I kept trying to restart the Rhino to no avail! Then, soo as we were on dry-land, it starts! I was praying the battery would hold up till we were out. My wife has panic attacks, and she was about to go "Full-Blown" on me, which didn't help matters none! (Which is another reason I tried to avoid future puddles!)

Dislikes:
The whole ride, (before and after the mud hole), the Rhino had a bad hesitation if you quickly floored the pedal.
"High" gear was useless on the 450 on all but level ground. And "LOW" gear wasn't a lot of help when we had no other alternative than to go through thick mud. The 450 engine nearly stalled a couple times in extremely thick mud, but it did make it through. It seemed very underpowered.
The ride was extremely "STIFF"! It would literally beat us to death on choppy, or rocky trail sections. The shocks were set in the next to last "soft" setting. But in defense of the Rhino, the tires appeared over-inflated to me. I didn't have an air guage to check them, nor the owners manual to see how much air they actually needed. But day two we were 5 hours in the saddle, and were glad to be out of the Rhino when we returned to camp!
Noise! I don't know if all UTV's are this noisy, but we had to shout to talk to one another!
The seat belts attached too high to the cage. I'm 6'1" and my wife is 5'10" and the seat belts rubbed our necks.
Needs cup-holders! LOL!

Likes:
We liked the half-doors, as they gave a sense of security.
The seats were pretty comfy for the first hour or so, and we liked the seating position.
All the controls were easy to get to, and easy to work. Went into and out of gear well, (Except when we got stuck in the mud, I couldn't get it into neutral.)
The e-brake worked well.
Steering wasn't too heavy.
Went into and out of 4WD just fine.
Loved the bed capacity. Enough room for vittles, extra gas, etc.,.

I'm in no way a pro at rating the Rhino and this ain't meant to be that. Just a beginning UTV rider's view of the Rhino 450. Honestly, I'm not a speed freak, and I actually thought a 450-500cc UTV would most likely be plenty enough power for my riding style. But after riding the 450, I think I'd like more power. It just seemed to be working too hard all the time. No offense meant to anyone of my views of the 450 Rhino. I'd have to try out more rides for a fair comparison, but at this time, I wouldn't be in the market for a 450 Rhino, nor any Rhino, if they all have a harsh ride like this one had. But like I said, I think the tires had too much air in them.

Here's some pics of our trip:

hnh

No way are you being critical. I have talked to some folks about the 450 and they say it is a bit on the wimpy side. If I were you, try to borrow someone's 700. It has the cup holders, fuel injection, and soon there will be a wealth of aftermarket ECUs for the 700. Lyle from VDI will have his unit ready for purchase really soon. I looked at the 450, but I knew in my mind I would kick myself in the a$$ later for not ponying up and getting the 700. The 450 would be okay for some, but not for me. As far as the trails go, the Rhino went everywhere my buddies' atvs went while I was home. I did rub the upper roll cage going between some trees and ripped the snap to my soft-top, but overall I was really pleased. I don't think I would want anything wider for trail riding. Just my two cents...

highnoonhunter,

I hope you had a good time. Even if you were on a 450 Rhino. It is not hard to believe you felt under powered on 450. I feel that my 700 is not enough power at times. Side by Sides really need V-engines at lest 800cc or bigger to have the same power of an ATV. However, I am very happy with my 700 rhino. You need to try the 700 before you rule out the rhino. Moreover, you should try the sport additions. They have the sport shocks that ride better then the base. the only problem I have with the ride of my rhino is it bottoms out easier then it should.

Keep riding, keep trying

Big-R

Excellent write-up! Most of your dis-likes can be addressed with a 700 with 26" radial tires and good shocks. I have a 660 and a 700 and I can tell a difference between them at take off. The 700s have more low-end "pep" with the fuel injection. I love the RZR too, it has alot more "pep" right out of the box. Have not yet had a chance to test a Teryx so I don't know about them. Keep looking and have fun!

Yeah, I should have added that I have not been in the cockpit of a RZR or TERYX. I have driven the Ranger. Nice bike and good power, but IMO, not really a good machine for trails. If I were wanting one for the farm, that would be it for sure. Everyone seems to love the power of the Kawi, but I don't know about the belt system. Lots of folks are skeptical about that. I wish Suzuki would jump in and make a SxS with a twin cylinder. I think the A/C is a nice looking machine, but I have never driven it. I know a guy on NYROC that swears his is tough as nails. Ask Gunrunner and Foxfire.......they love theirs.

I would not have been able to make it last weekend but TTB (www.triadtrailblazers.com) had another member up there with a Rzr. You could have rode with him.

Anyway -- The Indian Ridge HM trails are fine but you were near alot of better riding. The Outlaw trails in that area are very good. Let me rephrase -- they are EXCELLENT! All the hills, mud, rocks, open areas, and speed chances you could want. I'm going up this weekend on my Outlander and will likely do 200+ miles in 2 days. We did 90 miles in the Rhino (all 4 seats were full!) on one Saturday approx a month ago. I've ridden 1700+miles (600 on the Rhino) in that area in the last year and only maybe 60 miles was on the HM trails (that includes Indian Ridge and Pinnacle Creek).

If you decide to do that ride again let me know. Send me a PM. I'm going to Utah to ride ATV's in September but will be open alot of weekends after that. I have a camper at Hilltop (couple of miles from Ashland KOA) and can meet you at the KOA. This offer is open to others. I'd love to find more people that want to ride SxS's in that area.

roamerr wrote:

This offer is open to others. I'd love to find more people that want to ride SxS's in that area.

It wont happen this year, but next year we will have a group ride up there. We will be counting on you and BobbyD to guide us through it.

BobbyD knows the Indain Ridge area really well. I know it decent and would be glad to give a tour with some good hills, view, mudholes, and general play areas. Many people believe the 660 or 700 will climb anything but I can show you a couple where power becomes an issue. Nothing becomes more "butt puckering" than topping a steep long hill at 3mph full throttle in low. I'd love to see the Rhino's with 27" wheels tackle those.

Also -- normally the Indian Ridge Blue trails do not have many deep mud holes. Black Trail 93 (maybe 98 - don't remember) has one that is around 4+ feet deep. That one is crazy deep and I have seen no one go through it. Gotta have snorks to attempt it. Gotta have really good mud tires to make it.

Highnoonhunter -- just noticed that Grundy is only about 2 hrs from Crumpler (KOA Ashland). If you ever want to do a good day ride (ATV or Rhino) let me know.

highnoonhunter, the best advise I can give to you is if you can borrow your buddies 450 again, bring it on a ride with a big group and see what everyone else is running and what works for them. When we got our first Rhino we did not have a clue of what we wanted to add. Stock out of the box is ok but you will soon learn that you will want to make it just a little better. A bunch of us will be in Evarts August 15,16 and you are welcome to join in.

roamerr wrote:

I would not have been able to make it last weekend but TTB (www.triadtrailblazers.com) had another member up there with a Rzr. You could have rode with him.

Anyway -- The Indian Ridge HM trails are fine but you were near alot of better riding. The Outlaw trails in that area are very good. Let me rephrase -- they are EXCELLENT! All the hills, mud, rocks, open areas, and speed chances you could want. I'm going up this weekend on my Outlander and will likely do 200+ miles in 2 days. We did 90 miles in the Rhino (all 4 seats were full!) on one Saturday approx a month ago. I've ridden 1700+miles (600 on the Rhino) in that area in the last year and only maybe 60 miles was on the HM trails (that includes Indian Ridge and Pinnacle Creek).

If you decide to do that ride again let me know. Send me a PM. I'm going to Utah to ride ATV's in September but will be open alot of weekends after that. I have a camper at Hilltop (couple of miles from Ashland KOA) and can meet you at the KOA. This offer is open to others. I'd love to find more people that want to ride SxS's in that area.

I saw someone leaving with a red rzr as I was entering the KOA.

I tried to find directions to the "Outlaw Trails" from the KOA, but either no-one I asked knew, or didn't seem to really want to tell me. One guy gave me directions, but then "over-informed" me, trying to tell me details of the whole area and when he was finished I forgot where to start! LOL!

We'd love to make it up there again this year, but I don't know if we can get something to ride unless we rent an ATV. I've been using my dads old '94 KingQuad, (he gave it to me, but wants it back), but he informed me he wanted it back because it's the only ATV he has small enough to get up his hunting trail. So now I'm left without anything, and I hate to borrow someone elses ride all the time.

Also, Thanks to everyone else for the info and invites!

hnh

Last November there was group at the KOA from Raleigh. They had been there two days when we arrived on Friday night. They were extremely disappointed since as they said "the riding is too plain". After discussion they had only been on the HM trails. We gave them directions and a lead to the "Outlaw" trails. The next evening they were happy as a 18 yr old in a $5 whore house. They went back for a night ride that night to get their 100 miles for the day.

At the KOA you were approx 4 miles from the kickoff point of the Outlaw trails -- "The Stairsteps". All it took for directions is a right out of the KOA. Turn right on the next road after that and follow it to the top (approx 4 miles or so). It takes you to the Stairsteps. You can see great views from there and always find someone riding.

The catcher at the KOA may be what to call the trails. Very few up there know them as the "Outlaw" trails. I'm not sure where that name came from -- maybe the internet. Google Stairsteps ATV WV or Wagon Wheel WV and you can find some videos.

Here's some other videos --
http://www.walltoowall.com/WTW-Gallery.htm

Labor Day Weekend 2006 shows the Stairsteps pretty good. It's very interesting to see someone jump the guardrail.

Hillclimb on 3/21 is the "mini-stairsteps" -- about 10 miles away.

Rhino up/down Hill Climp on 11/26/06 is the "View" -- really good hill maybe 500+ ft long (yes - he climbs it in Low full throttle).

this was a very informative write up.not only of the machine but as well as the trails.I Have not ridden Indian Ridge but hope to next time Im there.

If you do an internet search for Stairsteps (WV) and come up short .... look for Wagon Wheel (WV). You can park at the Ashland trailhead for the H&M trails, leaving on your UTV ..... turn right at the Coal Mining Museum, take the next right .... follow the road through the little community ....... follow the road up the mountain and you are at the Stairsteps.

OK, I know where ya'll are talking about the Outlaw Trails are now. I did a search too for Wagon Wheel WV and everything is clear now. My wife and I went driving around and drove through the little community of Crumpler. If we'd went farther we'd found it.

We were sooooo close!

Next trip we'll be able to find it! THANKS wingman!

hnh

Next trip .... be sure to get a cheeseburger and fries at the Wagon Wheel.

The biggest difference I see between the "outlaw" trails and the H&M trails are ................. pretty much knowing where you are at all times on one and not having a clue on the other!!!!!!! The H&M has a nice map, trails are numbered, rated and color coded.

The "outlaw" trails you are on your own. If you can get hooked up with someone that knows their way around you are better off your first few times. Not that you can't still have fun ..... we have rode there and not met up with anyone yet. But, pay attention where you turn and when you do make a turn, turn around and look at where you just left from. Also remember when it starts to get dark ..... you need to be near your trailer or where you are sleeping for the night.

Forget the burger at Wagon Wheel. Go to Hilltop and get the Redneck Burger. $7.95 for a 1 1/2 lb burger with Fries and drink. You'll get you picture taken for eating it!

We take a night ride often but knowing where you are is critical. It's dark in those woods at night.


The important question is:

Did you see the Bear at KOA? Three weeks ago 3 of my buddies were riding on HM Trail # 12 and the bear was straight in front of them. He moved on but was in no rush... The bear is approx 8+ ft tall...

You boys.........didn't happen to hear banjos playing while you were navigating those trails did ya?


Just my opinion, but I don't believe I would be in those woods without packing a pistola. I am allowed to say that.....grew up, born and bred in WV. Those areas can be a little rough and seems like meth is getting pretty crazy there in the rural areas. I would definitely like the assurance of having my Glock and plenty of ammo in my pocket. I am definitely not trying to turn anyone off the area.....I bring a gun on most all my outings. You just never know. I have heard about Wagon Wheel and these areas though I have not had the privilege to ride there. That region has some huge hills and some breathaking scenery. I would like to hit it in the fall when the leaves are changing. Maybe we can get a ride lined up there for early in the year next year while it is still cold and maybe snowy.

Most riders in my group pack pistols. Almost all (including myself) have CCW permits. The Glock 23 is common. You will not see it but they are there. As for safety -- I feel as safe in that area as in most places.

We have a big ride the week after Christmas. I'll also ride several times a month in Nov and Dec. PM me whenever and there is a good chance I can make it. I actually prefer it is you can bring your wife or whatever since my kids always want to ride in the Rhino but I can rarely bring them since I do alot of ATV riding. I know alot more ATV riders and thus ride the ATV most often. I would really like to use the Rhino more...

Well I myself won't be back from Afghanistan till at least January, but I will have the opportunity to take leave for a month (I won't take but a few days) once I get back. I know we are planning a big ride in Harlan, KY, but I would like to make it over to WV and visit friends and family too. Maybe I could slip on over to the Wagon Wheel area. That is only about 2 hours from where my family lives. I know at least one member here (Yank) lives close enough to shoot over on a short trip. We will have to see what January brings. I know I am going to be a busy beaver trying to get my family moved back into a house at FT Campbell, but I plan on making time to ride too. We should get a lot of free time from work just returning from deployment, so I want to take advantage!!!

roamerr wrote:

Forget the burger at Wagon Wheel. Go to Hilltop and get the Redneck Burger. $7.95 for a 1 1/2 lb burger with Fries and drink. You'll get you picture taken for eating it!

We take a night ride often but knowing where you are is critical. It's dark in those woods at night.


The important question is:

Did you see the Bear at KOA? Three weeks ago 3 of my buddies were riding on HM Trail # 12 and the bear was straight in front of them. He moved on but was in no rush... The bear is approx 8+ ft tall...

They had to remove some of the trash dumpsters at KOA because they had a bear in them.
We saw the bear where the single track trail 172 joins up with trail 50 or maybe it was 52 blue trail.
It was a large bear. My wife couldn't get a photo so I ran up the single track and caught her going into the briers but still couldn't get a photo. I went on up to where she went into the briers and couldn't spot her good enough to get her photo. How did I know it was a her?
When I heard more than one bear rustling around in the briers!
Then when I came back to where we first saw her I found her track with a baby bear track just in front of hers.

If I'd saw the cub track I wouldn't have ran after her! :<club:

We also saw cub tracks on blue trail #37.

im up for a ride at the wagon wheel. let me know