Why bail out the big three?

Well they stood behind America when we needed it for one reason.


Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11


'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's
contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and
Washington.

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee
contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The
company also offered ER response ! team services and office space to
displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims
of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and
victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.

8. BMW-Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat-Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in
August 2001

12. Isuzu- Nothing.

13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.

14. Nissan-Nothing.

15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche
website.

16. Subaru- Nothing.

17. Suzuki- Nothing.

18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
Condolences posted on the website


Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep
this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a
car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company.
Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed
nothing at all to the citizens of the United States ...


It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is
apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe
we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets
their attention..

Your right Gunny. Congress should look at this.....

I think the Goverment should stop the importing of automobiles. If what was sold here was made here in these big ticket items it seems to me that would create jobs

I work in the tool trade our biggest customer is honda of america, in the dayton oh area gm has closed or is about to close there last plant here dec 23 that builds the trailblazers, Honda is my paycheck and we build parts for the assy line, i personally drive gm products my stepdad is laid off from duramax diesel plant in dayton. i dont have any hard feelings towards honda heck im working 65 hrs a week doing there work right now. they keep my income liveable wereas gm aint doing squat, but as Gunny says SUPPORT AMERICA, i wont buy a honda but they are good cars, my mom has an accord with 324,000 on it nothing done except standard maintainence to it.

I agree with BobbyD -- we need a US Auto Industry and limiting choices to only vehicles made here would help create jobs.

Personally I support the Big 3 Bailout (actually Ford gets zero currently). I love my Dodge Ram and liked my Chevy Tahoe just as much. US vehicles are generally good vehicles. Besides -- I'd hate to think I could loose my job and have to compete with 2,500,000 laid off auto industry people for my next job. The USA needs all of the jobs it can get. Time to start back making stuff in USA.

There is only 2 reasons for bailing out the Big-3.

1- Maintaining the companies credibility

2-protecting the UAW's workers pensions and retiree's benefits.


Keep in mind that i'm a Union man myself (I.A.M. Local 656), but the question needs to be asked. What makes the auto workers and the auto industry so special? Who was there to protect the airline workers when they took a beating? Who was there for the steel workers? Why does this industry get preferential treatment over others? I'm just asking. Can anyone tell me?

What makes the auto workers and the auto industry so special? Who was there to protect the airline workers when they took a beating? Who was there for the steel workers? Why does this industry get preferential treatment over others? I'm just asking. Can anyone tell me?

Impact. The automakers have 10+ support jobs for every manufacturing job. Huge job multiplier since they are mainly an assembler of various items supplied by their suppliers. This multiplier also means that they owe many layers of suppliers and purchasers that would be impacted. Airlines are a service industry -- not a good comparison. The steel industry was highly segmented and only made one sub part -- steel with few creditors.

Like the airline or any other industry that has to file Chapter 11, it does not mean the business is going away. It just means they reorganize and reduce their obligations to their creditors, as deemed necessary by the bankruptcy court. The companies will still make automobiles, and suppliers will still supply parts, etc. That is why I stated before that this is all about protecting the UAW workers pensions and benefits and nothing else. There still will be people buying cars, and they will have to be made. What i'm getting at is this. All the other auto manufacturers in this country such as BMW,Mercedes,Nissan,Toyota,Mitsubishi,Honda, etc. pay comparable wages to their employees as the Big-3. Problem is they dont offer a pension or retirement medical benefits like the Big-3 do. This causes an additional 3000 dollars per car to their costs that the non-union companies dont have. They got by with this by owning the big truck and SUV market which generate big profits and basically gave their small cars away at cost. With the gas costs wiping out their bread and butter sales they are forced to try to compete with the non union companies at the small car market. It is not working out on the balance sheet. The UAW has failed miserably at organizing these non union companies. How will a 15 Billion dollar loan correct this problem?

Well with congress pissing our money away on bailouts that we will never see a repaid dime of, I dont have a problem LOANING money to ford,gm and Chrysler, At least its a very good chance of getting the money paid back. Seems i remember many millions being forked out a few years back to the airlines too.

I used to work for a major supplier to the big three. From experience, I know why the big three need bailout. Its because of major mismanagement, and unless they change something a bailout will only help for a couple of years and then they will be begging for more money.

Long as they pay back the first loan, then its ok, but the horse dont drink from the well for free more than once!

I for one get tired of the media kind of putting the blame on the UAW workers as the problem it's not the wages it the piss poor management.The UAW workers wages are just a very small part of the cost of the product.

Sure it is! How can you say that, that over paid worker out there on the line sweating his ass off and getting 30 bucks an hour can in no way compare to hard job the executive does in his cushy office, well when hes not on the golf course working hard for the 3 or 4 measly millions they pay him. I agree on bad management, what i want to know is how a big company can justify paying any one person those kind of bucks when they let business get in such bad shape, anywhere else you do that they fire your ass.

GM is stupid for not dropping more product lines years ago the same way they dropped Oldsmobile.They don't need a Chevy & GMC truck brand just have one or the either and they don't need Pontaic,Buick & Saturn that's just more overhead get real.

They are trying to sell Hummer, Saturn is a joke, it was a marketing ploy to lure in women but now is just like Buick or Pontiac. GMC use to be there big truck line but now is a mirror of cheverolet , they should drop chevrolet trucks and combine with gmc, then you would not have to have two different front ends, the rest of the trucks are the same.

I wish I could make $30 hr.

sc rhino wrote:

I wish I could make $30 hr.

If you worked for a company that made things that sold for on average between $25K to 35K for an example and had the profits these companys have had in the past you should make that kind of money

But the $25-35k for a car is crazy!!!!!!!
If the GMs didn't make Millions and have personal jets.
And they try to keep the prices down so the people could pay them.
They wouldn't need a bailout.

Sorry, I'm not here for a pissing match.
I just tried of my tax dollars going to someones F@#% UP !!!!!!

sc rhino wrote:

Sorry, I'm not here for a pissing match.
I just tried of my tax dollars going to someones F@#% UP !!!!!!

You must have took what I was trying to say the wrong way I agree new cars and trucks are over priced and that's why I buy used.The machines we ride are over priced too but we have a choice to buy them or not

I wish made $30 hr
I could more

sc rhino wrote:

Sorry, I'm not here for a pissing match.
I just tried of my tax dollars going to someones F@#% UP !!!!!!

No big deal were all buds here, as to the government pissing away out tax dollars, id rather loan it to the car companies than have some congressman use it to build a bridge to a tiny island I cant afford a vehicle that would make the long trip to even cross it :(lmao: