Dust in throttle body

Bobcat, Kubota, Cat all run paper filters in thier Uni-Loaders (skid-steers) and the enviroment they live in is much harsher than anything we throw at these sxs's, that alone tells me to stick with the stocker, in this case anyways.

I always read at several forums
the new stock filter was best on the S.
so thats what i will run.
i also bought an outwear to go over it.
so we will see how it works.....

Chris.........

I wasn't trying to stir any dust here (pun intended), just wanted to get some opinions. I went ahead and ordered the Pre-filter (ran them all the time on my Kings) and I will give it a shot. I have checked it after every ride and this is the first time I have seen anything but a squeaky clean throttle body. Considering that, I am not in panic mode....YET.

ridepate wrote:

Bobcat, Kubota, Cat all run paper filters in thier Uni-Loaders (skid-steers) and the enviroment they live in is much harsher than anything we throw at these sxs's, that alone tells me to stick with the stocker, in this case anyways.

This is VERY true ! The only thing is......when I remove the paper air filter from the machinery here @ the nursery....which for the record....you are either in mud or extreme dust, we throw the paper filter away and install new. If you blow the paper element with air to clean it, you run the risk of the paper being compromised and your chances of seeing this are slim to none. I can testify to the fact that the paper filters do what they were designed to do and do it with excellence, but use and pitch.
Again, ........but I probably should have done what Yankee said.....

wvyankee2 wrote:

Thats the best thing for you, I read your post before you edited it!

GunRunner wrote:

wvyankee2 wrote:

Thats the best thing for you, I read your post before you edited it!

Care to quote me then. I thought not!

Best to leave this to the RZR experts which I am not.

Foxfire wrote:

ridepate wrote:

Bobcat, Kubota, Cat all run paper filters in thier Uni-Loaders (skid-steers) and the enviroment they live in is much harsher than anything we throw at these sxs's, that alone tells me to stick with the stocker, in this case anyways.

This is VERY true ! The only thing is......when I remove the paper air filter from the machinery here @ the nursery....which for the record....you are either in mud or extreme dust, we throw the paper filter away and install new. If you blow the paper element with air to clean it, you run the risk of the paper being compromised and your chances of seeing this are slim to none. I can testify to the fact that the paper filters do what they were designed to do and do it with excellence, but use and pitch.
Again, ........but I probably should have done what Yankee said.....

No doubt pitch it. It's not made to be cleaned.

I will just replace it , thay dont cost that much...

4x4pac wrote:

GunRunner. I dont want to get into a pissing match about air filters. But get your fact straight my friend. The teryx pulls just as must air as the rzr and the stock filter is closer to the injectors!! If this system works on a teryx and can take all the suction the rex engine pulls against a filter I know it will work for a rzr! I know you might think because you own a rzr that it is the biggest and badest thing around, dont fool your self. My intake system is on rex's with the 840 kits ion them. Your rzr could not come close to touching one and I know they pull WAY more air than your rzr. Now when you get 20+ years of doning nothing but working on atv's, motorcycles, and now utvs, including building custom parts, come back and talk to me.

This topic is about a RZR air filter, not a Teryx or RZR. I could care less what you think about which is biggest and baddest, just to let you in on a secret I have been working on and owning every type motosports since i was 8 years old. Ive even owned 2 of those 750 v twins, in brute forces and 3 of the 650s. The only thing I will say in defense of what you said about a RZR is, bring that big old Galapagos teryx down to brimestone and try and follow some of the RZR boys, and You will see just how quick a teryx gets But on this topic you and whoever else that says a uni or KN will protect the RZR motor better than the new paper filter is to simply put it, VERY MISINFORMED! But i leave it at this, you RZR guys believe who you want, The people that dont own one or those of us that DO and have done the research of many horror stories from those that did try them. ( i can learn from others mistakes without making them myself) and seen real life tests like Bush's and my own. This topic is hear because LT used a UNI and in a very short time he has problems. Bottom line, its yours use whatever you want to in it. Just remember, you have been warned if you go the UNI, KN or other performance type route.

wvyankee2 wrote:

GunRunner wrote:

wvyankee2 wrote:

Thats the best thing for you, I read your post before you edited it!

Care to quote me then. I thought not!

Best to leave this to the RZR experts which I am not.

It was just a bunch of uninformed, misleading ramblings by someone who doesnt have a dog in this hunt as usual.

You guys are right about the paper filters in the dirt working machines. But, most of them have two filters. My John Deer and New Holland have this set up. You have an out paper filter that you throw away, then you have a inner fabric filter that you check for dust. The system works really well. But that is in a different type machine. It is a great system.

P.S. Guys lets keep things nice. Remember, we are all here for fun and information.

Foxfire wrote:

ridepate wrote:

Bobcat, Kubota, Cat all run paper filters in thier Uni-Loaders (skid-steers) and the enviroment they live in is much harsher than anything we throw at these sxs's, that alone tells me to stick with the stocker, in this case anyways.

This is VERY true ! The only thing is......when I remove the paper air filter from the machinery here @ the nursery....which for the record....you are either in mud or extreme dust, we throw the paper filter away and install new. If you blow the paper element with air to clean it, you run the risk of the paper being compromised and your chances of seeing this are slim to none. I can testify to the fact that the paper filters do what they were designed to do and do it with excellence, but use and pitch.
Again, ........but I probably should have done what Yankee said.....

i agree with gunny!!

you guys use what you want. but for me the stock filter done its job with 1700 miles on the stock filter. it was about to get tossed and a new stock filter put in. and when i get a new rzr to replace the crashed one i have no plans of changing it.

i do not like that its a paper filter but it works!! i would rather have a good oiled foam filter but all the research i have done on the rzr the foam does not filter as good in a RZR.

and as a K&N filter goes you will never see one on any of my off road toys. i run one in my truck but not on any of my atvs or sxs.

I believe they are all excellent filters and each work well if they are properly maintained. When I say maintained I mean the foam and gauze type filters need cleaned and oiled on a regular basis while the paper needs replaced not cleaned. And on a bigger motor pulling more air they need to be cleaned more often than on a smaller motor like my 450 because of the flow coming though the filter not the miles since cleaning. I will continue to run the foam filter on my Rhino because it works great and you don't have to replace it after ever ride just clean and re-oil.

I don't know how much the paper filter costs but if it were me I would change it often and pack a new one with me in-case I got moisture in the air-box which could ruin the filter and motor quick. Also I would not recommend using compressed air to clean the filter the compressed air could damage the filter plus it could have water in it if not filtered which would also damage the filter. The paper filter has always been an excellent filter as long as you keep it dry.

Suzuki tried the paper filter several years ago and with their air-box design people kept getting them wet and ruined several motors.

Several people have had trouble with blowed motors due to running the K&N filters and not properly maintaining them.

ChrisC wrote:

I will just replace it , thay dont cost that much...

Same here. I just need to get me a Outwear prefilter

S wrote:

ChrisC wrote:

I will just replace it , thay dont cost that much...

Same here. I just need to get me a Outwear prefilter

here is the link to outerware
http://www.outerwearsracing.com/proddetail.asp?prod=911387

Thanks Gunny. Wife is ordering one on her way home tonight.

i run stock filter in mine from polaris because i tryed the k&n filter and fine dust was in my tube. i tryed it 2 times cleaned and oiled it like it said still fine dust in tube. put stock back in no dust in tube. i cleaned the tube each time. ya know how dusty it get in wv. i was in the same amount of dust each time that is how i seen the stock was better also had read on rzr forum of other guys finding out same thing.

Well , here is the way i look at it.
yes i liked the foam filter in my Rhino.
it was easy to clean. on the S thay seem to think
the paper filter works better and you need to replace it.
to me its no big deal. if your going to buy a 14 or
15 thousand dollar machine. and worry about replaceing
a 8 to 10 dollar air filter , you need to just stay at home...

I will just buy 4 or 5 at a time and not worry about it....

Chris buy ten so I can have some

mking wrote:

Chris buy ten so I can have some

Next time i buy some , I will buy one just for you....

GunRunner wrote:

wvyankee2 wrote:

Thats the best thing for you, I read your post before you edited it!

WTF?

In other words, get a UMP for a little longer between filter-changes, or stick with stock........Aftermarket filters are NOT the way to go.....


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Quote: Originally Posted by CSG
As compared to a properly designed & sized intake. Typically you do not want to see more then 1" of vacuum in the TB at WOT. I picked up two tenths in 300ft. by leaving the cap off of the end of the UMP. My junk is mostly stock also, modified engines would be hurt worse.
all that proves is your running too rich...I'll bet if you tuned it proper with the cap on you won't lose the 2/10'th's.....Here is an explanation i recieved from UMP about the "flow".....

FROM UMP...
Hey Mike,


You are right about UMP not wanting to quote flow numbers as that is not how we test our kits and they don't really mean anything unless they are less than what the motor needs as I will explain. Simple math from a widely available equation based on engine size, RPM and efficiency shows that the RZR motor will only flow about 75 CFM at 6500rpm (85% efficiency), about 80 CFM at 7000 if you have a chip in it (again 85% efficiency). Please note that 85% is on the high side, most list 75 to 80% when doing the math. VERY few engines approach 100% efficiency and those are highly tuned race motors that are designed for a very narrow power band like for drag racing. When you guys put on a pipe and change the ignition and fuel settings from stock you are changing the 85% number to maybe 88%, not a huge change to flow. Turbos are another story as you are pressurizing the engine and flow rate is based on how much boost you run and they can go as high as 150%, that is why we do a larger canister for the turbo RZR. These other filter guys that say "flows 54% more than stock" are just pulling your leg, the motor won't flow that much anyway so that means they just have more holes in them to let more dirt through. If "more flow than stock" meant something then taking the air filter off would mean you would make unlimited horsepower right? No, wrong, any more than what the motor needs does not change the power it makes as the airflow is determined by the size, RPM and efficiency of an engine. The only gain from flowing more is how long the service life of the filter is as it will take longer to get dirty enough to flow less than the motor needs.--- The problem with cleanable filters is how bad they filter dust at the beginning of their service life.----- Their claims' of high 90's dust retention are cumulative, meaning at the end of the test when they are all plugged up their rating goes up but at the beginning of the test they are really bad, we always ask if the cleanable filter guys dyno at the end of the day or race and then tell us how much power they make. Usually they don't know but can feel the loss in power. And all that dust that went through when the filter was clean is killing the motor so how much power does a dead motor make? The Donaldson filters we use are 99.9% efficient for dust retention and don't need a layer of dirt on them to protect your ride. Now, back to flow, we test right on the vehicle to measure vacuum the motor pulls right after the air filter with a very accurate gauge that measures inches of water. That senses how hard the engine has to pull through the filter to get the air it needs and since an engine is a pump, it is pulling the air through, it doesn't just fall in there. We saw on our test RZR about 9" with a stock filthy air cleaner, about 4" with a clean stock filter and about 1.5" with no filter at all. Our UMP kit measured 3" of water and the big difference is ours will stay there for much longer time since the filter is keeping clean as you go since 85% of the dust is spit out the little valve on the end cap. That means you are making good power for much longer service life of the element and the motor stays healthy ( Ours will get dirty to, just will take 3 or 4 times longer). Those guys that think you are making 2 or 3 more horsepower cause of the cleanable filter they put on need to tell us how much it costs to rebuild their engines after a season or so of eating dust and how much more it makes when it is all plugged up. And for those that have to know, based on other kits we have tested and comparable canisters filters ours will flow about 115 CFM at 6" of water, way more than the RZR motor flows. Sorry I got so wordy but it is not just a simple answer and can cost you guys a lot of dough if you are steered down the "flows more air means more power" path. For those that want to read more about filter testing, just Google "Spicer filter test", it is very informative about good paper filters verses cleanable filters.
Thanks,
Cliff Cappos
Unique Metal Products
760.421.0300 Phone
760.421.0303 Fax
uniquemetalproducts.com

Nice Jimbo......that's what I call "Informative"

Thanks Jimbo, maybe old 4x4 can glen some insight from this if he decides to come back and read it. Bottom line it says what i have always said about performance filters, they flow more cause they dont filter as well. The stock system for most of us is fine, i clean and check mine after every ride, but if you lived somewhere where you can ride a lot and often like bush can then the ump would be a good option so you dont have to service it as much.