Brimstone's New Rider policy, IMPORTANT everyone read!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/frustrated-with-brimstone-recreation-/
Please go and sign the online petition to make the land owner aware of what is going on.

I know there are a few that are up set with my stance on the Brimstone/Trails End dispute. I am sure they think I am basis. I will admit that I have a great relationship with Marl and Steve. However, my relationship with Erika is just as good.

This whole deal is really upsetting. Brimstone is by far my favorite place to ride. Moreover, Trails End is my favorite place to stay. Both of these businesses have been great to me.

I am sure that I am now label a "Brimstone hater". This is far from the truth. If this situation had been reversed I would be backing Brimstone. However, that is not the case here.


I know the two parties involved have had there differences but there is a better way of working things out.

Big-R wrote:

I know there are a few that are up set with my stance on the Brimstone/Trails End dispute. I am sure they think I am basis. I will admit that I have a great relationship with Marl and Steve. However, my relationship with Erika is just as good.

This whole deal is really upsetting. Brimstone is by far my favorite place to ride. Moreover, Trails End is my favorite place to stay. Both of these businesses have been great to me.

I am sure that I am now label a "Brimstone hater". This is far from the truth. If this situation had been reversed I would be backing Brimstone. However, that is not the case here.


I know the two parties involved have had there differences but there is a better way of working things out.

Big R , Brimestone has taken a hard stance, even though they are loosing money they think they can endure till trailsend folds and riders forget and things go his way. The only good resolution IMO to this will be if trailsend can prove some legal wrong doing and get a court order to fix it. This however is a very costly thing to do and brimestone with political clout and local backing from ones in power knows he has the upper hand and continues on. I doubt brimestone ever makes a public statement, they dont need to, they are basically trying to stave trailsend out , cut off as much of their income as possible and wait them out til they fold. The riders, local out rage and a good lawyer is their only hope as I see it,sad as that is to say.

In the meantime....people like me that had a multi forum trip planned for almost six months , people coming from numerous states, have their ride of the year messed up by an new policy change by .

I also have been treated well by Erika, from late calls, any issue always resolved in a timely manner from no water to A/C not working. For one person, I am probably in there top 10% spender there last year. I am not a hater, just extremely frustrated at the un announced policy change. This should have first been explained why, if there is a why, then, a 6 month notice timeline that this is going to occur unless resolved.

Marla and Steve are working hard to clear and mark trails on TWRA so that the riders can still ride and stay where they wamt
Don't be discouraged, these trails are awesome and the scenery is amazing! Trails End Rocks!!

I do enjoy Brimstone, but the fact the TWRA trails are way bigger and a change of scenery makes me want to check them out all the more.

I have always preferred New River over BS, even with the trails being overgrown in places.

Why would anyone be upset that your taking a stand against our rights and freedom of choice as riders? That whats wrong with the whole damn country! Everyone's scared to stand up for them selves against bullshit politics like Mark Love has done here. I don't want to not ride Brimstone. Hell I was there six to eight times last year alone. But I'll not be told where I stay with or who I spend my time with when I'm not on the Mountain. If everyone would get on board and boycott Brimstone this would be over with by spring.

Tanisha Foster wrote:

Marla and Steve are working hard to clear and mark trails on TWRA so that the riders can still ride and stay where they wamt
Don't be discouraged, these trails are awesome and the scenery is amazing! Trails End Rocks!!

Y'all should consider having another boycott this weekend so that the people coming in from out of town for Winterfest can be informed of the situation.

Tanisha Foster wrote:

Marla and Steve are working hard to clear and mark trails on TWRA so that the riders can still ride and stay where they wamt
Don't be discouraged, these trails are awesome and the scenery is amazing! Trails End Rocks!!

Tanisha - Didn't you all have peacfull protest last weekend? How did it go?

Mark must be a special member of the FTC. It has been over a week and no response!!!!!!!!! Any others who filed, had any contact. I will give them another week or so.

yep mark is special for sure. short bus special

I dont post here much, just lurk when i am going to ride the area. I called and spoke with the Mayor last week to explain that, even though your club/forum seems small, many of us visitors pay attention to it and what is said. I voiced my concern about these changes and the fact that i would not be visiting Huntsville unless this changed. He brought someone else (a woman) in on the call (on speaker) and stated clearly that this was an issue with Trails End. He did not elaborate, but the two of them placed ALL the blame on Trails End and said that they were the reason for the changes in the policy (as you all believed). I normally stay in one of the hotels because i come in from Alabama, but for them to tell me where i can and cannot stay is enough to make me go elsewhere, no matter what the reason.

Even though the mayor blamed Trails End, i have to look at this and say 'who has more to risk here?' I dont know the back story, but just to look at it, BS looks alot like the playground bully. They really expect me to believe that Trails End did something so bad to BS that it warranted not only making them a 'wildcat' campground, but completely starve them out? They could have easily 'disassociated' with them to punish them, and used their clout to pull down signage and whatnot, but to completely black list them seems a bit childish.

Yeah, Brimstone went about this in totally the wrong way. In their original statement they stated that they wanted to be known as a resort. So what's the most visited resort in America and probably the world? Yep, it's Disney. We all know Disney knows how to make a few bucks. How do they encourage their guests to visit the park, eat there, sleep there, and overall spend every last dime on Disney properties? They certainly don't tell you that you have to stay with them to get a ticket. They offer discount packages and totally blow away the competition with service. And they offer experiences that you just can't get anywhere else. They are certainly the big boy on the block but they don't use unfair trade practices and spread false inuendo to squash the competition.

But then again, this whole resort thing that Brimstone is pushing is just a smoke screen.

Yes we did have a protest on Saturday, went fine. We're planning to again this Saturday but with the weather I don't expect many will show up but I'm hoping! As for the mayor placing all the blame on Trails End, anyone who knows our "good" mayor knows he's a snake! He and Mark are two peas in a pod! Mark is the vice mayor, enough said!! I could tell you all the things that have happened from day one but frankly it would take hours. Suffice it to say, this "feud" started with BS and M Love throwing a temper tantrum like a two year old. It's disgusting what's going on and even worse that anyone would believe the line of BS that BS is feeding them. Marla and Steve are good people. They're not stupid. It would make no sense for them to cause this mess, think about it!

"Brimstone Recreation is more than just a few hundred miles of trails (ranging from easy to difficult). You can rent ATVs there, hire a guide for your trip, make camp at the Trails End Campground or enjoy a stay at a mountain cabin nearby"


Found this on the Scott co websight SCOTTCO.COM
Go to tourism tab select ATV riding


Is the county saying I can stay at TE

Asking the Mayor to take sides against the Vice Mayor is just not going to happen, if there is a city council, bringing it before them might do some good but only if they are not all on the brimestone ass kissing list.

JHammer123 wrote:

"Is the county saying I can stay at TE

The county has no sway in this matter... plus that web page probably hasn't been reviewed/updated in ages...

JHammer123 wrote:

"Brimstone Recreation is more than just a few hundred miles of trails (ranging from easy to difficult). You can rent ATVs there, hire a guide for your trip, make camp at the Trails End Campground or enjoy a stay at a mountain cabin nearby"


Found this on the Scott co websight SCOTTCO.COM
Go to tourism tab select ATV riding


Is the county saying I can stay at TE

This is pre-2013 new rules. Staying at Trailsend now means brimestone will not allow you on their property.

This was posted on RZR Forum. Wonder who the other SXS site he's talking about? What a jack wagon!!

Quote :

I sincerely apologize for the long post. There are two sides to every story, and 99% of the post on this and another popular site seem to be telling just one. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and for the first time on any web forum...I will give mine.

There are so any hundreds of post I wish I could respond to...shed a different light on...but time will not allow. So I have selected a few to put my two pennies on. It is NOT my intention to offend a single soul. I'd fight for anyone's right to express themselves...even those with views/beliefs 180 degrees opposite of mine.



No, I'm not an employee of Brimstone, or a family member of the lease holder. I live in Ky, and over the years have ridden Windrock, Wildernes Off Road Park, Pickett-Car Hauler area, Hatfield McCoy trails, alllll over Harlan County/Rose Hill, Va...and yes, for the past few years, Brimstone.


Quote: Originally Posted by R955
... There is simply NO good reason to leave another local business out in the cold like that...(Actually, there have been many reasons that I have been told of...or have personal knowledge of...the most recent one (now in litigation)..was the final straw IMO)....Brimstone brings alot of money into the local economy, each and every one of them depends on the other...(You are correct that Brimstone has, and IMO will continue to bring in alot of money to the economy thanks to all the folks that love to ride the trails there. HOWEVER, due you have any idea how many permits are sold annually? Each White Knuckle/SxS Event held for the past 2-3 years has avg. 10,000+ in event wrist bands. Add to that the additional 2-3 day passes for the "Woodstock of the ATV/UTV World".....do the math...and ask yourself this. Just how much does Brimstone "Depend" or need Trailsend and the 50 or so campsites they offer?).....
Quote: Originally Posted by R955
Now Brimstone has chosen to exclude Trails End, who used to sell Brimstone passes and even book Brimstones campground and cabins. ..(TE sold passes for a month I'm told..and never....EVER had access/did bookings for Brimstone)...there is some personal stuff that is spilling over into business, a family owned campground is having their livelyhood threatened. ...(And another "family owned buisness with a campgrounds didn't have their livelyhood threatened..uh..first?)

I apologize, but I can't remember who posted this comment:
When Brimstone built there campground they were still doing the booking for both. They would promote there camp and not Trails End so they split. That is an incorrect statement and NOT the reason for the split!Brimstone built their campground for 2 reasons. 1st for the use friends and volunteer staff members of Brimstone who have given FREELY of their time to build and maintain 21,000 acres of trails, and help put on events. 2nd, to provide overflow RV sites during major events only when TE was full. I can't tell you how many times folks would ask how to get a site at the Brimstone Campground only to be told by Brimstone Staff that the campground wasn't for rent...it was only for staff members and others needed to go to Trailsend)

I suppose this poster seems to sum up the biggest "rub" that so many on this and other forums are having with the rule changes:
Windrock is a great place to ride!.....Brimstone is also, but this is AMERICA not comunist CHINA I don't want anyone telling me where I have to stay and spend MY money.

Well anyone that knows me can tell you I can get bout ol' boy redneck as anybody. But is Brimstone telling you where you have to stay or can't stay? No, they don't say you can't stay at TE...just that you can't ride/access their thrails (WHOSE trails again? Brimstones!) Folks, I don't mean to preach/get political...but at a time when it, and so many things are under attack, I firmly believe in Capitalizm! IMO, the lease holder has poured sweat, time, and $$ into Brimstone to make it one of the top OHV destinations/event areas in the USA, and especially the Southeast. The maintenence, insurance, security, facility upgrades, advertising etc etc. to get Brimstone to where it is...has GOT to be staggering!

But here is what I haven't understood since the backlash started over the new policy concerning TE. So many of the same folks that don't like being told where they can stay...don't seem to see the other side of the coin...that is put yourself in the lease holder of Brimstones shoes. This IS AMERICA...right? If YOU are a buisness owner...do you want to be told WHO you have to get along/do buisness with?! What supplier you have to buy from/support?! How would YOU feel if folks where telling you that you HAD to get along/do business with someone that you...for W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R the reason be...just did not want to support/do business with?? Could Brimstone ban all OHV's that are "red" in color? Or made by a certain manufacturer? Well I agree that would be pretty stupid...just as many think the situation with TE being denied access to Brimstones leased property is stupid. Pehaps. But I was leasing land...NOBODY..but NOOOOObody had better tell this ol' boy who I can and can't allow on my property/do business with so long as I'm not violating any laws. And while I'm not an lawyer, post after post of Brimstone "descriminating" against TE just don't hold water, IMO. These things federally proteted by law from descrimation: age,dissabity,equal pay,gentic,nation origin,pregnacy,race/color,religion,retaliation (better read up on that one before anyone thinks there might be an angle there for TE to use against Brimstone),sex, and sexual harrassment have not been done by Brimstone against TE to the best of my knowledge.

I'll close with this. I've rode at alot of riding areas. I go for the riding 1st and foremost...PERIOD. I've slept in the open bed of a pickup truck, a hammock, 300k+ diesel pushers and everything inbetween. I've NEVER planned a trip, let alone return trips based on where I lay my head down for a few hours at night. For me...and I'm only speaking for this ol proud Kentucky Hillbilly..it's about the trials, good times on the trails with friends/family etc. Heck, give me a bar of ivory soap an a creek, (or decent supply of wet wipes) and even my wife don't mind much where we "camp" or not..as long as the trails are awesome. And "awesome" tight wooded trails, is why I have, and will continue to ride Brimstone.

If there was a legit reason for what Brimstone is doing, WHY wont they just let everyone know?? Because they're having to think up as many lies and bs as possible before making a statement!! People have called and emailed, only to be ignored by BS! I think that alone speaks volumes about how much BS cares about their riders!!

i agree with Tanisha the other

a few things that the fellow didn't read was the rules has in regards to TE

It really took a lot of posting to get them to make a fake profile, and put up a rebuttal, my wife and I have been really trying to get them to post something, anything at all. I figured it would be like this, I am pretty sure that was either Mike Love , Or Erika, I have nothing against these people, but their actions have spoken volumes about what kind of people they are!

where was the fake profile and rebuttal?